Possessive Pronouns - Part 2

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Here is the complete st of possessive pronouns.

     -(i)nya         my

     -(e)ngwa     our (includes hearer, 2 of us, you and me)

     -(e)mma      our (excludes hearer, 2 of us)

     -(e)lva          our (includes hearer, more than 2)

     -(e)lma         our (excludes hearer, more than 2)

     -(e)lya          your (one person, formal/polite)

     -(e)tya          your (one person, informal/familiar)

     -(e)sta          your (2 of you)

     -(e)lda          your (a group, more than 2)

     -(e)rya         his/her/its/genderless singular

     -(e)tta           their (2 of them)      (Analysts think this is the right form. It follows the patten, though Tolkien never gave an example.)

     -(e)lta           their (more than 2)      (Variant -(e)ntya is sometimes seen.)

Use the initial vowel with words that end in a consonant.


Any case endings are added after the possessive ending.

Extra Material for the Geeks:

Some analysts prefer using -i- as the connecting vowel for plurals:

     -(i)ngwa, -(i)mma, -(i)lva, -(i)lma

     -(i)sta, -(i)lda

     -(i)tta, -(i)lta, -(i)ntya

Tolkien did not leave enough examples for us to know for sure how to form the possessives in all situations.

Extra Material for the Geeks:

In the first edition of Lord of the Rings, Frodo's greeting to Gildor read:   "Elen síla lúmenn' omentielmo, a star shines on the hour of our meeting."

Tolkien comments (1965-6) on this:   "Frodo's use of omentielmo was wrong.   'Our' in this case certainly included Gildor's associates (and also Frodo's companions).   He should have used omentielvo.   In politeness Gildor would of course make no comment."

The word was corrected in the second edition.

At least we know that even Frodo sometimes slipped up on subtle points of Quenya grammar.

Possessive Pronouns As Separate Words

Tolkien gave two examples of possessive pronouns as separate words. These are much less common than possessive pronoun endings for nouns.

These act like adjectives, so they change form (-a →-ë) when referring to plural nouns.

ninya corma         my ring

ninyë cormar       my rings

Ardalambion forms the sentences like this:

I corma ninya ná.         "The ring is mine."

I cormar ninyë nar.      "The rings are mine."

Extra Material for the Geeks:

The two examples from Tolkien are ninya (my) and menya (our). All the other forms give in this section have been extrapolated by filling in the pattern from those two examples.

     ninya                  my, mine

     ventya                our, ours (includes hearer, 2 of us, you and me)

     mentya               our, ours (excludes hearer, 2 of us)

     venya                  our, ours (includes hearer, more than 2)

     mentya               our, ours (excludes hearer, more than 2)

     lyenya                your, yours (one person, formal/polite)

     tyenya                your, yours (one person, informal/familiar)

     lentya                 your, yours (2 of you)

     lenya                   your, yours (a group, more than 2)

     senya                  his/her/its/genderless singular (living)

     sanya                  its (non-living)

     túnya, tunya     their, theirs (2 of them)

     tenya                  their, theirs (more than 2, living)

     tanya                  their, theirs (more than 2, non-living)

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Pronouns as Separate Words

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Quenya pronouns can be separate words, just like English pronouns.   Pronouns as separate words suggest more emphasis than pronoun endings.   These pronouns can be used for either the subject or the object of a verb.

     Hantanyel         I thank you.
     Ni hanta lyë      I (personally) thank you.
     Hantan lyë      I thank (especially) you.

Extra Material for the Geeks:

Remember that if a verb has only one pronoun ending, that ending refers to the subject of the verb.  So "Ni hantal" would, expanded July 17, 2013: if it meant anything, mean "You thank me".

     ni             I, me               (sometimes nyë for object "me")

     vet           we, us (2 people)(includes hearer)
     met          we, us (2 people)(excludes hearer)
     vë             we, us (more than 2)(includes hearer)
     më            we, us (more than 2)(excludes hearer)
     lyë            you (one person, formal/polite)
     tyë            you (one person, informal/familiar)
     let             you (2 people, formal/polite)
     tyet          you (2 people, informal/familiar)
     lë              you (a group, more than 2)
 

For "it," Quenya makes a distinction here between living and non-living things.   Plants count as "living."  As far as I know, this set of pronouns is the only place in Quenya where this distinction between “living” and “non-living” shows up.

     së             he, him/she, her/it (living)/genderless singular

     më           alternate form for it (living)
     sa             it (non-living)

corrected July 18, 2013:

     tú             they, them (2)
     të             they, them  (living, more than 2)
     tai, ta      they, them (non-living, more than 2)

Quenya has two more specialized pronouns: 
     hyë, hé    he/she "the other one"

Tolkien gives two examples:
“He [së] struck him [hyë] and he [hyë] fled.”  
Melin sé apa la hé.     “I love him but not him”

These sentences are much clearer in Quenya than in English, because Quenya is distinguishing between the two people. 

     added July 17, 2013:

     hya    it "the other one"

  If you are comparing two non-living things, the “other one” is hya.

Merin sa apa la hya.     “I want it but not it.”

     mo           someone, anyone

“One [mo] does not simply walk into Mordor.”
Colloquial English often uses “you” in situations like this. But of course Boromir wasn't talking about whether you specifically could do it; he was talking about anyone.

Extra Material for the Geeks:

Most of these separate-word pronouns can also be spelled with long (accented) vowels.

Any of these pronouns can take case endings.

ni             me
nin           for me (dative) 
nissë        on me (locative)
nillo         away from me (ablative)
ninna      toward me (allative) 
ninen      caused by me (instrumental)

Always use the simple, singular form of the case ending, even with dual or plural pronouns.

vë             usven           for us (dative) 
vessë        on us (locative) 
vello         away from us (ablative
venna      toward us (allative) 
venen      caused by us (instrumental)

Instead of genitive ("of") case endings, use the possessive pronouns.

Emphatic Pronouns

These is a set of even more emphatic pronouns.

     Hantanyel             I thank you.
     Ni hanta lyë          I (personally) thank you.
     Inyë hanta lyë      (Who would have thought it, even) I thank you.

     inyë                I, me
     engwë            we, us (2 people)(includes hearer)
     emmë             we, us (2 people)(excludes hearer)
     elvë               we, us (more than 2)(includes hearer) 
     elmë               we, us (more than 2)(excludes hearer)
     elyë                you (one person, formal/polite)
     etyë                you (one person, informal/familiar)
     estë                 you (2 people)
     eldë                 you (a group, more than 2)
     es, esë             he/she/it /genderless singular
     ettë                  they (2)
     eltë                  they (more than 2)

Again, these pronouns can take case endings, just like the ordinary pronouns.

 Practice - Your Turn

I continue to take examples from you, the readers.  Post an example in the Comments, or email it to me {lihan_taifun (at) yahoo (dot) com} and I will post it in Comments for you.

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Pronouns - "We"

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We have already discussed some pronouns:  the pronoun endings for the subject of verbs, and the possessive pronouns.

You may have noticed that we were missing the words for "we" and "our."  I didn't include those in the first discussion of pronouns, because there are four forms of “we” in Quenya.  Quenya makes several distinctions that English does not.   In Quenya, "we" which includes the listener(s) or reader(s) is different from "we" which does not include the listener(s)/reader(s).

Quenya pronouns make use of "dual" forms.   That is, there are special "dual" forms for "two people," in addition to "plural" forms for "more than two people."

Extra Material for the Geeks:

Tolkien changed his system of pronouns quite a bit during his lifetime.   This is one, commonly-used, fairly consistent, system, dating largely from the late 1960's.   You may encounter other systems.

Here is a complete list of the pronoun endings for verbs, including "we" and all the dual forms.

Pronoun Endings for Subject of Verbs

     -nyë, -n                     I

     -ngwë                        we (2 people)(includes hearer)

     -mmë                         we (2 people)(excludes hearer)

     -lwë, -lvë                  we (more than 2)(includes hearer)

     -lmë                           we (more than 2)(excludes hearer)

     -lyë, -l                        you (one person, formal/polite)

     -tyë                             you (one person, informal/familiar)

     -stë                             you (2 people)

     -ldë                             you (a group, more than 2)

     -s, (rarely -së)           he/she/it /genderless singular

     -ttë                              they (2)

     -ltë                              they (more than 2)

Extra Material for the Geeks:

Tolkien mentioned that -ngwë (we, 2 people, includes hearer) could also take the forms -ncë or -nquë.

««◊»»

As mentioned before, the pronoun endings -n, -l, -s, -t could also refer to the object of the verb.

     -n     me
     -l      you (one person, formal/polite)
     -s      him/her/it /genderless singular
     -t      them (plural)
The subject-pronoun (in long form) goes first, then the object pronoun (in short form).

     Hantanyel     I thank you.     hanta- + -nye (I, subject)+ -l (you, object)

««◊»»

Extra Material for the Geeks:

Tolkien mentioned that these pronouns can also be attached to prepositions. The only examples I know of are for an irregular form. (That is probably to say that Tolkien didn't make lists of the regular forms.)

ar(a)       outside, beside, besides

anni       beside me

armë      beside us (exclusive)

arwë     beside us (inclusive)

armet   beside us (two)

astyë      beside you (informal)

allë         besides you (formal)

arsë         beside him/her”

Practice – Your Turn

Now it really is your turn!  I know people read this blog.  I want to see what you are doing with your Quenya.  Post an example in the Comments, or email it to me {lihan_taifun (at) yahoo (dot) com} and I will post it in Comments for you.

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